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CNU Public Square

Welcome to CNU Public Square, an open forum of the Congress for the New Urbanism where ideas come to congregate. Participate in an ongoing dialogue about the direction of the Congress for the New Urbanism and our annual Congress event.

 
     

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»I recently participated in an urban infill charrette led by the Kentlands Initiative in Salt lake City, Utah's Granary District. The district is and has been a light indutrial neighborhood with some residential. Some challenges we found when calibrating the smartcode included:
1) How does retrofitting industrial buildings fit into a T4 zone?
2) How does one maintain semi-truck access while building complete streets?
3) What creative opportunities are there when applying T-zones to the standard 10 arce SLC block?
»I think the "Tea Party" label doesn't really help here; there isn't a centralized Tea Party group we can work with or against. Instead we should be focusing on outreach to right-wingers and conservatives generally, whether they be more Tea Partyish like Allan West or more mainstream like John Mica. If we can't get Congressmen let's think about state legislators and county commissioners.
»Dean G1, you are right on target by distinguishing between the Koch Brothers and other right-wing think tank funding that is behind the Tea Party and other movements of its ilk and the large majority who have fallen for the rhetoric. Sandy is right to focus on local rather than national representatives so we can address real concerns. Including Occupy representatives can reinforce the local emphasis and make it less of a "we against them" (Tea Party vs. Smart Growth/CNU folks) discussion. A key will be how the rules are set up for the discussion so that the focus is on issues and solutions.
»I certainly agree that the concerns the Tea Party and other conservatives have need to be discussed and debated. And I agree that CNU is the place to do that. However, I am not sure the Tea Party is going to last very much longer (past this election cycle). Engaging them as a group only legitimizes them.
»Howard, How about getting down into the nitty gritty and out ahead of objections from the public works and utility companies by demonstrating how the Public Utility Easement (PUE's) get modified along with the sanitary and storm sewers. I suggest you take a couple specific intersection with existing utilities and come up with a transition strategy. Reworking storm drain inlets is one of the big cost involved with basic bulb outs and curb extensions. Fooling around with older terra cotta sewer pipe can make sewer lateral modifications surprisingly expensive. Tackling these pesky details head on has the benefit of showing the utility staffers that you are considering how the big urban design move and value creation idea meets the ground and how it effects them. (they can be valuable allies and potent opponents.)
»Tea Party membership is concerned about ANY outsider influence in local matters -- whether it's UN 21, Smart Growth (as a governmental initiative), or parachuting consultants (those who travel from outside the local area to sell their snake oil). This attitude conflicts with NU, only where NU is being brought into a specific area from outside consultants (sorry Planmakers). But, where NU principals are shown as being truly beneficial to local economies -- i.e., where its core purpose is Localism -- you'll find NU warmly embraced by both the Tea Party and the Occupy movement. The NCI Charrette process, since it relies so heavily on local feedback, is a great mechanism to win the hearts of Tea Party hardliners.
»Sandy, I don't think it is as much about connecting with the Tea Party (or the OWS people for that matter) as it is understanding their core concerns and how the NU message naturally resonates with those concerns.
We lead with the right emphasis and the NU brand is a powerful one that should cut across all of the groups and demographics.
»NU needs to plug into power grids. The question is how much the Tea Party will continue to wield power. Their candidates are going down in flames so far. They are roundly blamed for the do-nothing Congress, the stalemates, the lack of action. Are there better groups to engage? Just asking.
»This is really important and, if we can't pull it off, I think it would be instructive nonetheless to have a CNU discussion on this. We have Tea Party members within the organization. The value here is not necessarily in reaching common ground but in understanding how to communicate a NU message to them in their terms and consistent with their values (which is not hard once you really understand their concerns).
In short, we need to educate ourselves because we can sometimes come across (wrong, in my opinion) as a bunch of liberal, elitists that loves trains, bikes and density for their own sake.
»Lisa, what we've encountered in our interaction with Tea Party officials is a deep schism between those who are Koch Brother (hard core organizer) Tea Party members, and those local folks who joined the movement to get things changed. The former is focused on a divide & conquer strategy using diversionary tactics, while the latter is most interested in building relationships that will further their goals.
»Sorry if this posts twice. I can try to get someone from Sarasota county, the problem is that there are two local tea parties masquerading as one. 95% are people with whom you can have a decent conversation . You may not change their minds totally, but you come away knowing that the edges are not as sharp. However, those with clout are a thin band of organizers who will not compromise. These folks will divert the conversation if you come close to middle ground - and usually divert with a topic that they know will get your goat. Let me know if you want names.
»Dean you are right and we've discussed including OWS previously, but need to follow through. Maybe OWS and TeaP can agree that top down AASHTO Green book mandates for wide streets and Fannie Mae mandates for separate use zoning are bad for America, left or right.
»Howard, how about engaging the Occupy movement also. Last week the Boise Tea Party came to our Occupy encampment, at our invitation, to talk over common ground. Though there are some obvious differences between Occupy and the Tea Party, there is a lot of common ground -- my sense, as a planner, was that this common ground centers a lot on localism issues (and its relationship to sustainable communities).
»Howard,
Great idea. I was heckled by an anti UN Charter 21 tea party man in Lancaster Pa. I told him I didn't like the UN telling us what to do either. I said "don't do what the UN tells you to do, just do what I tell you to do." I got him to almost laugh.
I agree with Sandy it should be a local. Newt charges 50k a speech unless he's campaigning which he won't be doing in Florida in May because the Fla. primary is 3 weeks from now.
»Great idea Sandy. We'll plan to do that.

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